by Tyler Hernandez

David Bertrand Interview

In Jazz, most instruments that you’d associate with the medium would be horns such as the Saxophone, and not so many woodwind instruments like the Clarinet or the Flute. However Jazz Musician, David Bertrand argues against this and believes that the flute has the ability to adapt languages from other instruments to go through its vessel. Originally from the neighborhood of Cocorite in Trinidad, David’s musical language is very heavily influenced by the Saxophone itself, however he uses that language through the woodwind instruments he plays to give what he calls perspective. Playing woodwind instruments with the heart and soul of a broader instrument is something Bertrand loves to do when playing with his colleagues and friends. In this interview, I ask David five questions that pertain to him as an artist and more importantly as a person and what his role is in the world around him.

1. Is music the only form of artistic expression that you are interested in? Have you tried any other forms of it? And if so, how do you think that correlates with being a Jazz Musician?

A: Right now, I don’t have any other music other than jazz music quite frankly. It takes up all of my time, except for having a family. But throughout my life I have engaged in other forms, so when I was in secondary school (my country’s equivalent of High School) I was a Visual Arts major- watercolor, painting, some drawing. I was kind of good at it? And I felt that it was a kind of emotional malleability that the visual arts possessed that I was drawn to. You know, that whole thing of your perspective being important, and really the idea that you are expressing a sentiment that is unique, really massively appealed to me. At that time, there were folks in my class that were way better technicians than I was. So I had a better talent, maybe? But I didn’t have the kind of skill as the others, and I felt I wanted to engage with a form where I can truly realize my imagination, and my perspective and articulate it. So, I think that led me to Literature and I was actually a Literature major in College. Almost did that in Grad School before coming to America, and becoming a Jazz Musician. I would say that it’s probably still an active thing- I do write, and I have shared some of that writing in public settings, it comes in useful. I think that perhaps it’s the second strongest way I have of expressing myself, other than music. Some of the people in my life think that is the prominent thing, but for my own self, the inscrutability of music that we can, as instrumentalists, not have words in our tool kit, yet we’re able to convey aspects of the human experience without the need for words. Emotions and Sentiments don’t need that information. But I think that there is something because these are all human expressions where there is intersectionality. If you can think of a well formed phrase in poetry or prose as being musical, all the nuances, not just the inflections of the words itself, but the kind of real punctuation which feels like a really stilted thing, and convey so much sentiment in terms of the duration of the proses. To give you a sense of the personality of the writer, or the kind of mood or sentiment that is trying to be expressed, I think has a very strong correlation to music. That’s what ultimately we’re trying to do organically, honestly in real-time as Jazz Musicians. But Tyler, I would argue that there is an art in everything. I really wanted to get into parkour when I moved to New York, and that in itself is an art. To see the world itself as your canvas, and you are the paintbrush, and are moving differently to how the landscape changes, that’s essentially what we’re doing as Jazz Musicians. It’s as if we’re running through the rooftops of all the five boroughs, and that changes constantly. It’s still New York, but the weather changes- there might be a flock of pigeons on one rooftop one night; someone painting; another a group of people doing Yoga; so that you’re changing as you’re doing your whole Captain America parkour thing. I suppose it’s a similar thing when we’re playing.

2. When performing music, what does it take for you to get into a state of mind where you can riff and improvise a piece? Is it an instinctual feeling or is it something that you have learned to develop over time?
A: It’s both actually! I feel like when I’ve been asked similar questions, I think immediately about, like, sort of like the parkour thing, I think about Basketballers or in the world of fiction, before this stuff became nerd popular, I was really into Marvel Comics (not so much the movies) and I was really into Star Wars, that whole Jedi thing. And because I think with those characters, the idea that you had this incredible amount of acumen, that came through decades of study and practice but also with an encouraged malleability, so when you’re in a real-time situation, you’re able to react organically and recall all of this training and all these possibilities. I see the same thing in real life with Basketballers especially, and Footballers- this team thing where the individual’s contribution is celebrated, but they’re having to do it in context with others. So with me, it’s trying to be relaxed enough so I can remember all the training that I have as a Jazz Musician, in terms of how I’m going to create spontaneously and being open, so I can do it in a spontaneous way. At the same time it’s grounded, not just in this visceral sense of reacting to stuff, but it’s still anchored in what we refer to as Jazz Musicians as, language that’s not gobbledygook- that I am being expressive, so that other musicians would be able to hear me, and hear ideas, sentences, a dialogue, so it’s not just me running around the streets of Brooklyn going “Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!” but rather I’m saying something that can be understood, followed, and felt. I think that’s true for a lot of things in life. You want to be open to be spontaneous, so that your reactions are grounded in acumen- What you know. And that can be malleable to create new expressions and that now is added to your acumen. And I suppose that’s what group feels like for a lot of us.

3. What was it like performing with other people for the first time? Is there a certain energy you could describe to the way others play off of you?

A: One of the joys of playing with new people is the possibility that they are going to catalyze something in your own plane, and that you get to catalyze something in their plane, and that it is going to be something positive, enjoyable, surprising and beautiful. That doesn’t always happen, and I think a lot of it depends on the fact that we are human beings and that sometimes there is a degree of inscrutability because well, if I’m honest- sometimes people can be jerks. Some folks can be mad about us playing the music, and other folks are like, “well I wanna show you how bad I am, how fast I can play, how impressive I can be,” or maybe it’s a social thing. “I don’t know you so maybe you’re not worth my time so I bring that attitude to the music.” So that doesn’t always happen, and most people I found are cool. If you don’t know someone, try to figure out first off- if they’re a jerk or not, because that determines the dynamic of the music. If someone has a lot of attitude, then we’re trying to be polite and respectful, but you’re also acknowledging the elephant in the room. That can’t always be enjoyable. Within the first few seconds of playing, you get a sense as to what the person’s agenda is, or if there is no agenda. They’re playing in a way where you’re audible, and they’re not drawing attention to themselves, but rather contributing and making it a conversation, a dialogue, wanting to think. Musically, they’re listening to figure out who you are, they want to hear you- they want to learn more about you. It’s like what a conversation does- and when that happens, man you can relax, be yourself, even when you’re solo-ing and you’re expressing yourself in an expressively individualistic way. You also want to hear from them, so you can give them some space. They’ll say something back like, “Oh! That’s a really interesting point/Oh! That was clever!/Oh, that was funny!” and that just catalyzes more uplifting moments in the interaction. So it’s always kind of, “let’s see who this person is,” but it’s always hopeful that you’ll have those really positive uplifting moments. And those are the kind of people you want to play with. That’s why most of us moved here- for the opportunity for that to happen. I think all those great records made us all want to be Jazz Musicians, and because we can’t necessarily play with all the great Jazz Musicians from generations before, it’s like, alright, that’s their story. Now I need to find my musical friends to have that happen, and maybe when we play, we want to lift someone else up who has us.

4. What does the word “Jazz” mean to you? Is it a word that can be described verbally or is it something, like theater, that needs to be experienced rather than explained? And if so, could you elaborate on that?

A: Jazz has a very… the word itself, has a very specific history in this country. And I think there’s certain quarters from the African-American Jazz community that have been, I think very honest about how that word makes them feel. A lot of this you can check out on Google, but given that the word was according to some historians, first used when musicians were playing in some rather seedy establishments, that you had this kind of smear attached to this amazing expression from the African-American imagination. If it’s black, if it needs to be spoken of with respect. Were blacks not doing anything valid anywhere? So to them, they may as well give them a dirty word against it. And I think that stigma is still very much part of the dynamic of how the music is treated in this country. It is considered America’s classical music. It is considered one of the great innovations of the 20th Century. It is considered one of the greatest expressions from human imagination. And yet, how much Jazz do you hear in everyday life? In your neighborhood? How many families from solid working class communities have the opportunity and the resources for their children to become Jazz Musicians? So let’s even consider that as a career option. Popular culture has a history of making fun of Jazz- the writing staff for The Simpsons- I know The Simpsons isn’t necessarily relevant anymore but they have a history of these really silly Jazz jokes. Same can be said for Saturday Night Live. And you kind of ask yourself- why is this music that is represented initially, the African-American community, coming out of all their anguish and pain, wanting to assert their artistry and their personhood- why would you make fun of that, why would you routinely do so? What’s impetus to pull it down and make it stupid? Make it sound like something irrelevant. There is that. Mostly though, I think of dignity when I hear that word. I think of overcoming, I think of welcoming perspectives. So if you are from New York, with this music growing up, and it has significance to you? More power to you. You can be from Australia, you can be from Lebanon, you can be from Korea, you could be from Trinidad, and at some point you hear this music. And you feel like, wow that’s how I want to express myself and contribute something beautiful to the world. That’s one of the greatest things. So sorry for the convoluted response on that one, but I think like so many things, especially conversations the past few years there are different perspectives. You cannot, I think, in the 21st Century- you cannot think about Jazz and not have honest conversations about appropriation, and the way systematic resources or the allocation for those resources, lead to one group of people being able to engage with that artform regularly. Whereas other communities, ironically communities that birthed that music- this music and others, don’t even get the chance to listen to it, far less, practice it. I think that’s problematic. Especially New York, Manhattan, Brooklyn, The Bronx, where people of color, some of the greatest practitioners of this music ever, may forget about it.

5. What was the journey like to getting to the instrument that you now are most associated with? Did it take a long time to discover that this instrument is the vessel that you want to express your musical intuition with?

A: I didn’t want to play the flute- I wanted to be a Saxophone player. But the band program I was in, in my secondary school, at the time- an interest in Jazz developed, and the school did not have any Saxophones available- they had a flute. And I was like… okay- I’m going to use this, and I got really good really quickly. And that’s what I wanted to do with my life. I think when it was obvious that I had an affinity with the instrument, it didn’t matter to me that it wasn’t a Saxophone. I still, in terms of my approach, what we call the language as Jazz Musicians, I listened exclusively to Saxophone players. When I did hear flute solos, Jazz Musicians that played Flute primarily, a lot of it was kind of light and ineffective, and didn’t have a lot of drive, it didn’t seem very cerebral- it felt kind of inconsequential. Whereas in Saxophone playing it’s, “BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!,” sort of like an MC spitting verse, or like a really amazing boxer, amazing gymnast, like yeah go for that. And over time, I mean I do play other things. Clarinet is my second instrument, but I do know Saxophones- I could technically play them. But when I do, my whole thing has been taking an instrument that is kind of marginalized in Jazz, and using the language of the dominant horn in the music- the Saxophone. Using that language and coming up with this thing that, and it’s not unique to me, other people have done it, but it’s been so underreported that most people’s response to me is, “okay you’re going to be a flute player haha,” then they hear all the Saxophone language and they’re like, “Oh, woah there!” and it’s either resentment because I’m not living up to their expectations, or it’s an invitation to collaborate and play, and I’m accepted as an equal. And I think you’re astute enough to see that I kind of push this as a metaphor for identity. I’m a black guy from Trinidad in the Caribbean- I’m not going to change who I am or my personal history, it’s just like having a flute, right? I grew up with a lot of American Television but I also read Shakespeare, but I also read all this Caribbean literature, plus I love my Marvel Comic Books, plus Hip Hop, and all of that comes together, and I want to acknowledge all of that, just like how I acknowledge that the flute is an amazing instrument, and has been from the beginning of time, and has this great reputation in classical music, but yet when historically it has been used in Jazz- it kind of sucks. But it sucks because historically, it’s been played by people who may have been Saxophone players, who played it as a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th instrument, so they’re not really practicing- not really driven to really express themselves totally to the wall on it, as if nothing else mattered as it would on the Saxophone. And I tie that into the way in whichpeople of color, our stories for a long time haven’t been told by us, but have been told by other people and their perspectives, and a lot of them meant well, but those weren’t their stories to tell. And I think that now, people are much more receptive to the idea of someone being a flute player in this music and that there’s no stigma attached and the expectations are- well alright, we won’t judge you until you play, or we expect that you are automatically an equal, as opposed to an inferior or looked down as someone they don’t respect. What’s interesting is that as a flute player, because of the category, when you play something else, that perspective can be refreshing to people. So some naysayers will be like, “the flute is only valid if you have a better Saxophone language in it, if you put too much Saxophone language in it, oh no don’t go there!”But when you, as a flute player, play a Clarinet or a Saxophone, that perspective is unique and it reminds people that they’re supposed to be a diverse range of expressions in all of these instruments, because as human beings we’re individual- we’re not all supposed to sound the same on a Saxophone, or a Clarinet, Flute, or Bassoon or whatever it is. And as long as I can remember, that for myself, maybe there’s another perspective shift that can change how someone feels about an instrument, and if that happens then maybe it’ll change the perspective they have towards someone who is not like them, or a culture that is different to them, and that would be a good thing.